SKF NOTE: Last night I dreamed I was sitting on a stool, in someone’s apartment, practicing with a pair of wire brushes on the bottom of a blue-and-while Apple clam shell iMac. At first, playing on the hard plastic, confined to such a small playing area, was challenging.
I remembered Max Roach talking about playing the brushes without ever lifting them off the snare drum head. That’s how I played on the iMac and soon, I was playing a nice sounding, soft, even, slow tempo pattern.
Buddy Rich walked into the room and sat down while I was mastering the iMac. When I acheived my even brush pattern I stopped, looked over at Buddy and laughed. “Brushes are fun to play. Don’t you think?” I asked.
Buddy Rich
He stood up, walked over and – for a brief moment – took the brushes from my hands. I couldn’t understand what he was saying at first, but Buddy was showing me how he holds the brushes. His hands were very small and somewhat deformed. As if they were receding as Buddy got older.
Then the brushes were back in my hands and Buddy was showing me how he holds the brush between the thumb and index finger, and finds it best to rely on his middle finger for control on top of the brush. He showed me how he “use to have Cathy,” his daughter, exercise that technique by holding her left hand open, then closing just the middle finger into the palm of the hand. As if making a middle finger fist.
That was the second time I can recall having a conversation about drums with Buddy Rich in Dreamland.
SKF NOTE: My friend and music writer par excellence, Chip Stern, had a very good, albeit short-lived, idea for a drummer’s magazine. I did some writing for Chip’s magazine, but I don’t know that any of it saw the light of day.
Leonard Feather had a longstanding Down Beat magazine feature called Blindfold Test. Feather’s concept: play a handful of unannounced recordings for a musician and get their objective reaction.
Chip used the Blindfold Test concept, calling it Trading Fours, as part of his drummer magazine.
Recently I found an August 1989 manuscript of a Trading Fours I did with Neil Peart. I think this exchange took place in Neil’s home.
In honor of Tony Williams’s birthday, I thought this would be a perfect time to post Neil’s thoughts on Tony’s classic song, Fred.
Song Title: Fred. Drummer: Tony Williams. Album Name: Believe It. The New Tony Williams Lifetime. Columbia PC 33836. Released: 1975
Scott K Fish: [During our listening Neil asked if it was Billy Cobham.] Why did you think it was Billy Cobham?
Neil Peart: The first explosive fill reminded me of Billy. And the type of rhythmic feels too. But, wonderful drumming, for a start. It’s spectacular. The kind of stuff that always blows my mind. And the flaws in it just kind of humanize it; to make you feel closer to it. You don’t feel so intimidated by incredible, superhuman perfection.
SKF: Do you think you know who it was?
NP: Tony Williams was my second idea — just because of the sprawling fills. I’m not a big student of that music because of not being such a big fan. But one thing I always thought with Tony Williams is that he could make a fill sprawl all over the place time-wise, and then (snaps fingers) come back in. Which is enormously effective, from a drummer’s point of view, to hear that pulled off.
There’s so much rhythmic intricacy in that that really impresses me. He has so many different feels to pull out of the same pocket. I really admire that. It gets tedious in any field of music to hear the same feel applied to the same rhythmic subdivisions all the time. And he’s got a lot of different little triplet inflections there; different ways of pulling the beat around between hand-and-foot syncopation which are really, really a joy to hear.
SKF: How did you enjoy the sound of his drums and cymbals?
NP: I wondered what the era of that was — recording wise.
SKF: The mid-Seventies.
NP: So it was quite modern then. But, a bit of a harsh sound, subjectively speaking. I prefer to hear a smoother tonality. The drumming is so spectacular that it kind of negates any of those subjective viewpoints. You wonder which point of view to listen from. Again, I’m a bit hypercritical now, just being in the process of making a record. I tend to put myself in the producer’s chair and think, “Well, if I was producing these guys, what would I tell them to do?”
NP: I’m very surprised. A couple of things were very reminiscent of Alan. But then he just got into all that 16th note noodling which, melodically, to my mind, is beneath him. He’s capable of so much more.
Alan Holdsworth is one of my number one favorite guitar players for his ability to phrase. He phrases so often like a saxophone — which I love. I think taking that approach of phrasing to another instrument — in the same way that Sinatra did it in vocals. He took a wind player’s phrasing and applied it to vocals so effectively.
The same thing with Alan Holdsworth. I love his sense of melody. The tone of his guitar is usually much sweeter than this too. The tone seemed so shallow. His is usually so rich and deep. It’s not a performance of his that I would be impressed by compared with others.
SKF: Do you think this was a live performance?
NP: Live off the floor, certainly. Yeah. Just because of the flaws. They learned the arrangement, but I don’t think they rehearsed it that many times (laughs).
SKF: No click tracks?
NP: Definitely no click tracks. But that’s not relevant in this kind of music.
Tony nails down the feel. No problem. There was no wandering in that. There was just a few minor flaws — as you pointed out while we were listening. Tony crashed a cymbal a little ahead of where he was supposed to. That’s natural enough.
It was the same on the Joe Morello piece where his sticks clicked. I’ve left things like that in our records in live performance.
In the context of this, where you’re hearing so much virtuosity from Tony Williams, to hear a flaw like that — or with Joe Morello — to hear a tiny little flaw really humanizes it. It doesn’t detract at all from the incredible virtuosity of the instrument that’s demonstrated there. They’re kind of nice to see. It reduces us all to the same plane.
SKF NOTE: Yesterday I came across my monthly column written for the December 2011 Bangor Metro magazine. The column topic was, Who Got You Into Politics? I wrote, “Kindness from strangers 25 years ago was exactly the encouragement I needed to pursue a career in politics. Without the kindess of Natalie and Gerald Sirkin to a letter-writing stranger, I doubt my political career would have come to pass.” I was the letter-writing stranger.
Also yesterday I read a comment in DrumForum.org from a drummer who said of a personal encounter with Philly Joe Jones: “I also met him in the early 60’s and talked about lessons. He scared me away after a 2 minute conversation. Will never forget it. Who knows how I would have turned out ???”
Both incidents remind me that even in passing, through brief encounters, how we treat people, what we say and how we say it, can have a lifelong impact. Positive or negative. I think of that especially when I have conversations about drums and other music with Connor (age 9) and Brandon (age 12).
Connor expressed an interest in drums which, for now, has become cello lessons. When Connor first said he wanted to play drums I gave him a practice pad, a pair of drumsticks and offered to give him lessons. That didn’t work out. Which was a bit of a letdown for me. But who knows where Connor’s music path will lead him. If he sticks with cello and becomes proficient? Great! If is interest circles back to drumming, his drumming will only be the better for his cello lessons.
Meanwhile, I enourage his every interest in music, drumming or not.
SKF NOTE: If you have read any of my Modern Drummer History of Rock Drumming backgrounder interviews on this blog, you need only know that this interview with drummer Clifton James is another backgrounder interview. It, as with all the others, is published here for the first time.
If you have not read any other of these background interviews, the back story is here.
In the early 1980’s I was having a very tough time identifying the drummer on Bo Diddley’s rock classics. I found out doing another background interview with Blues giant Willie Dixon.
Somehow I was able to get Clifton James on the phone from his workplace in Chicago, the Ace Hose & Rubber Company.
I always hoped, while conducting them, these background interviews would yield new information about the History of Rock Drumming. Like mining for gold or buried treasure. Mr. James mentions two blues musicians I have not heard to this day: L.C. McKinley and McKinley Mitchell.
Clifton James was not very talkative. His answers were polite and direct, but giving minimum information. He had been off of the music scene for awhile, with little — almost no — interest in playing again.
But, thank you, Clifton James filling in several historic blanks for me. You will always remain in the top tier of my favorite rock and blues drummers.
Scott K Fish: You were the drummer on the Bo Diddley stuff, right?
CJ: Yeah, I’m his original drummer. We started out together. I’m the one that gave him that beat.
SKF: Now, that’s what Willie Dixon told me. How did that beat develop?
CJ: I don’t know. It just came to me. Well, before I started messing around with him, I was at home and I was just beating out something. That’s all. I met Bo and we started playing together in clubs and things, around here in Chicago, in different places, for little or nothing. Matter of fact, it was nothing! Five and six dollars. Crap like that.
SKF: Willie Dixon told me that you were very much into tuning your drums to get a melodic sound out of them.
CJ: Yeah. Well, I do.
SKF: He said you had no hi-hat on those recordings.
CJ: Yeah, I’d use it sometimes. I’d use it.
SKF: But at the time nobody else was playing that that tom-tom style. Was that your idea?
CJ: Yeah. On that particular tune — Bo Diddley and Pretty Thing — and quite a few numbers, I did like that. Then Dee Clark came out later on with his Hey, Little Girl in the High School Sweater.
SKF: You played Killin’ Floor with Wolf, didn’t you?
SKF: Frank Kirkland get most of the credit for the Bo Diddley records. What was his role? Wasn’t he the drummer on the road with Bo?
CJ: No. Well, I was at first, then I quit. I left Bo because things wasn’t right. But he would always wind up calling me back. Things still didn’t work out.
SKF: Do you think that’s where you got a lot of the melodic ideas that you were playing?
CJ: I don’t know. I had my own ideas, you know.
SKF: Are you from Chicago originally?
CJ: Yeah. Originally I am.
SKF: That’s a classic beat.
CJ: Thank you.
SKF: Willie Dixon though you might have been on some of Chuck Berry‘s hit records.
CJ: One, I believe. I can’t remember what it is. It’s been so long. They didn’t put your name on any records then. They just started that not too long ago.
Also, I did some things with Little Wolf, Jr. Little Wolf. That’s what they called him. I’ll be playing with him Saturday night at the Dallas Club with Albert King. He’ll be on the show too.
I had really stopped playing. I don’t play no more, really. But he asked me would I do this.
SKF: You kind of got out of music for a while, huh?
CJ: Yeah. Period! About two weeks ago I worked on a show with Bobby “Blue” Bland at the same club. They’re trying to ease me back into it, but I don’t think I’ll go. The money’s not right.
SKF: Well, I’m hoping this article will spark some interest. I mean, just the fact that you created the Bo Diddley beat. I mean, that was more your beat than Bo’s, right?
CJ: Yeah, in a sense. You might as well say that. There’s been a couple of tunes that I recorded with him and I never did get no money from the sessions. I mean, I got my session money but I didn’t get any royalty money from the records that I wrote. So this is what kind of turned me off too.
SKF: How was it working with Jerome Green in the studios?
CJ: Oh nice! That was our maraca player. And Billy Boy Arnold. He was playing the harmonica. And a fellow we called Buttercup during that time was on guitar. And James Bradford was playing bass.
SKF: Did you just get together with Jerome in the studio?
CJ: No. He was playing with us all the whole time when we was making them little four and five dollars a night. That was the original band. We called ourselves then, Ellis McDaniel and the Hipsters. That was our name.
SKF: Did you work out stuff between yourself, the bass, and Jerome?
CJ: Well, sometimes we’d just fool around.
SKF: How was it different working with Howlin’ Wolf and Bo Diddley? Did you have to change the style of your drumming?
CJ: Yeah. Most definitely. I had to get more funkier with Wolf. ‘Course, we had quite a few numbers too that we played that were real funky too. The old Jimmy Reed theme and stuff.
SKF: Do you remember what Wolf stuff you recorded?
CJ: Hey, there was so many of them. Also, with Sonny Boy Williamson. I made quite a bit of tunes with him.
SKF: It’s hard to hear on some of those records. Were you using cowbells too?
CJ: At times. Yeah. I did a little bit. Not much.
SKF: Do you remember the drumset you played on?
CJ: Yeah. WFL. It was four pieces. I use to do a lot of brushwork too. Like on one particular tune: “You don’t love me / You don’t care / You just want me….” I forgot the name of it. All those records from then got stolen from me though. When they broke into my house.
SKF: They took your record collection?
CJ: Yeah. All the ones they didn’t break. They had broke them all up on the garage floor and out in the yard.
SKF: Why?
CJ: I don’t know! Just stealing, you know. A lot of pictures I had. Newspaper clippings.
SKF: Did the drummers ever sit around and kick around ideas?
CJ: No. The only ones we would talk to most would be me and Below. He was my favorite though.
SKF: He was something, huh?
CJ: Oh yeah. That’s my partner, man. All the way.
SKF: Did you ever trade licks?
CJ: When we would do that mostly is when I’d meet him, like up in a club or something like that, where he’d be playing. Then we would exchange questions. Sometimes in the studio.
SKF: Did you work together in the studio sometimes?
CJ: No. At different times.
SKF: Did you know Odie Payne at all?
CJ: Oh yeah.
SKF: He came after Below and yourself, right?
CJ: No, it was around the same time, because he use to work with Elmore James. I use to kick around with a lot of the cats playing.
SKF: So are you thinking about getting back into playing again?
SKF: If you had to describe your style of drumming, how would you describe it? What made you different from everyone else?
CJ: I would have to say: Myself. ‘Cause I never really did want to play like nobody else. Because if I did that, then that wouldn’t be me. If you play like somebody else, then it’s not you. I wanted my own thing. My own style of playing.
SKF: Do you remember any other drummers that played on Chuck Berry’s records?
CJ: I think Al Duncan played on a couple of them. I’m not sure.
SKF: Somebody mentioned a drummer named Eddie Hardy.
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