James Black: They Don’t Want You to Shine; You Shine Anyway

Posted on March 24, 2016 by Scott K Fish

SKF NOTE – I posted the transcript of this excerpt on my blog on March 24, 2016. James Black’s words, heard in his own voice, are so much better.

I asked Mr. Black if he had a drum philosophy, based on his life experience as a drummer, he passes on to other drummers. James said drummers would have to come study with him to find out. That’s where this clip starts.

But James Black continues anyway to leave drummers with some universal wisdom.

black_james_altitude_cdSKF NOTE: Here is my interview with James Black as it appears in the December 19, 1982 Modern Drummer. The interview back story is there as well.

Revisiting the full interview transcript last night, a couple of passages jumped out at me, including this one on James Black’s philosophies on drumming.

One final point: James Black told me during this interview he had plans to record an album under his own name.  It appears that never happened. If I’m wrong I hope someone will correct me. Meanwhile, in 2004 Night Train Records released a compilation CD of songs James Black recorded over the years called I Need Altitude.

Also, this morning I discovered online a James Black documentary I didn’t know about. I’ve posted the first of seven parts of the documentary now available on YouTube.

Scott K Fish: Do you teach or have you ever taught?

James Black: Yeah, I’ve got a couple of students. I take a couple of students from intermediate to a couple of advanced students. They come to me from time to time and I give them my ideas and basic philosophy on rhythms and what not.

SKF: What do you teach as your philosophy of drums? Can you elaborate on that?

JB: I can’t divulge that information now. You’d have to come to me as a student. But it’s basically a philosophy, as a drummer, about the people you meet, bass players you play with, guitar players, and how to play in a rhythm section.

Not just how to play the drums, but how to play with other people, and how not to get sidetracked. How not to get thrown off. How to keep a certain amount of concentration on what you’re doing — and do that, no matter what the other person does.

I use to depend on the bass player to play. When the bass player would fall down, I’d fall down too.

The bass player and the drummer are the foundation of the band. I got to the point where I’d say, “Hey, man. If you fall down you just fall down by yourself. I’m going to keep playing.”

I try to get my students to realize that, if you’re playing, don’t depend on nobody but yourself. If the bass player falls down, plays a wrong note, has a heart attack, passes over, or goes up in a puff of smoke — you keep playing.

That’s true. If the man goes — POOF! — up in a cloud of smoke, just keep playing. He’ll come back sooner or later.

It’s sort of selfish in a way, but it’s the only way you can play. When you hear it back on a tape you say, “Wow, man. That sounds really good.”

But if you try to play and just go along, you’re limiting yourself to the amount of expertise the other person has. You may have more expertise — rhythmically — than they do. But if you limit yourself up to the point where they are, you never grow.

You’ve got to grow in spite of them. I told my students that there’s a lot of people who are going to hear you and think you’e really great. And they’re going to become jealous of you. They’re going to try to stop you from playing. They want to shine. They don’t want you to shine.

But you shine anyway!

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Charlie Watts: No Difference in Jazz and Rock Rhythm Sections

Posted on March 23, 2016 by Scott K Fish
charlie-watts

SKF NOTE: This excerpt is from my interview with Charlie Watts. It took place in Charlie’s New York City hotel room in 1982 or 1983. The Rolling Stones were on tour in America. Tina Turner was their opening act. [SKF NOTE March 5, 2017. The correct date for this interview is November 12, 1981. I found my audiocassettes that confirm the 1981 date.]

Two years before, as a freelance writer for Modern Drummer, I called Rolling Stones Records to set up an interview with Charlie Watts. The woman answering the phone told me, very matter of fact, “Charlie Watts does not do interviews.”

Fast forward. I am Managing Editor of Modern Drummer and I have established trust and friendship with drummers — including Jim Keltner. It was Keltner’s stamp of approval that prompted Charlie to agree to the interview.

I invited Max Weinberg to go with me, which he did, and Max and I were both listed as interviewers when MD published Charlie’s interview.

It was a tense interview at the start. My expectation — and I think it was Max Weinberg’s expectation — that we would interview Charlie as I had interviewed Max and every other drummer.

Max and I sat at a table in Charlie’s hotel room while Charlie wandered around the room. We were waiting for him to take a seat at the table. But, standing away from the table and not looking at us, Charlie announced, “Listen, I don’t do interviews. That’s what I told that girl whose name I’ve forgotten.”

“Robyn [Flans]?” I asked. Reading the transcript just now I have no recollection of Robyn Flans trying to interview Charlie.

“Right,” said Charlie. I don’t do interviews. I mean, you can talk to me.” And then Charlie said something that remains unsettled. He was standing far enough from the tape recorder that it was hard to hear what Charlie was saying — even when listening back to the tape. I thought Charlie said, “I mean, you’ve got ten minutes and then I have to be out.” And I think Max thought the same.

I started this interview thinking, what are the top two questions I can ask Charlie in the ten minutes we have? But since the actual interview lasted hours, Charlie either said, “I mean, you haven’t got ten minutes and then I have to be out,” or he changed his mind once our interview got underway.

weinberg_max

My intention for this interview, from when I first called Rolling Stones Records years before, was to interview Charlie as a drummer, a musician. I had zero interest in any Rolling Stones sensationalism. 

Scott K Fish: [Your] transition from wanting to play jazz to playing rock — was that a tough thing?

Charlie Watts: No. It’s really the same thing, isn’t it? Really. You need better techniuqe that I have to play jazz. But what you have to do is the same thing, isn’t it?

SKF: Pretty much. What do you think is the difference between a rock rhythm section and a jazz rhythm section?

CW: None! It’s either very precise, or it swings alot. There is no difference. What is jazz? Primarily dance music — originally — isn’t it? I mean, even good jazz, even though it’s an exercise for an instrumentalist — you can still dance to it in a way.

SKF: Even a band like the Coltrane Quartet?

CW: Yeah. Well, when it’s really going it swings. It’s as loud as a rock and roll band.

Well, you see, I don’t see any difference between John Coltrane and Chuck Berry, except one writes lyrics. But they do the same thing to me. I know the difference. I know that you need to be an innovator to play like Coltrane. But Chuck Berry was an innovator as well.

So there’s not alot of difference. Except they sound different. Rock and roll is dance music. And that’s really what jazz music is like.

Photo Credit: Charlie Watts

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David Dix Drum Setup for The Outlaws’ ‘Ghost Riders’ Album

Posted on March 22, 2016 by Scott K Fish

dix_david

David Dix

SKF NOTE: David Dix is teaching drums at A.J. Percussion in Tampa, Florida. On November 16, 1981, David was on the road with The Outlaws having recently released the band’s sixth album, Ghost Riders. Our mutual friend, drummer Paul T. Riddle, introduced me to David Dix and I did a feature interview with David for Modern Drummer.

This exchange is from the transcript of that interview — which I was reading just this morning. It occurs to me that some of the gear/equipment information in this and other interviews from 30-plus years ago might be of use to music historians and David Dix/The Outlaws fans.

Scott K Fish: We might as well hit on some technical things. You’re playing Yamaha drums, right?

David Dix: I’ve been using them for close to three years now. I don’t have an endorsement with them. From what I understand they’re only taking on a very few people, a very select few. People like [Jeff] Porcaro and [Steve] Gadd.

That doesn’t really bother me. I’m not really interested in having an endorsement. I want to play a good set of drums. I figure they’ll come to me one of these days.

Before [Yamaha] I was using a Rogers set — a combination of Rogers and Pearl. It was a Rogers bass drum, rack tom and floor tom. And I had some Pearl concert toms and a Pearl snare drum. It was a mix-and-match thing that got put together over the years.

I finally stopped using the concert toms altogether because I wanted to go for a more rock power-type setup. I went to bigger drums. I’m using two bass drums, a 9″x13″, 10″x14″, and an 18″ on the floor because I like that bottom. I’m using a Tama snare drum. I think it’s 6 1/2″ standard wood.

I do have an endorsement with Zildjian. When I got that, that really meant something to me. The [Zildjian] people like Len DiMuzio and all those people are just great. Anytime I need anything it’s just no problem to get it. If you’re in the area you can go to the [Zildjian] factory and hand pick your stuff if you want. That means alot to me.

ghost_ridersI’m using a 22″ Deep Ride, four crash cymbals which are — one 16″ and the rest are 18″. And a [14″] pair of those Quick-Beat hi-hats. I’ve got an Earth Ride and a Swish. At one time I was using two ride cymbals and the Swish with the crashes. Since then I’ve modified it.

SKF: How’s the Earth Ride?

DD: I like it. It’s a nasty sounding thing. But they’re loud, man. There’s almost no overtones. It’s just a thick…. They cut real well.

I like the regular Deep Ride so much that I just went with that all the time. The Deep Ride I have was at the NAMM Show in ’78, I think, in Atlanta. Len DiMuzio was demonstrating it.

I said, “Man, I would really like to have that cymbal.” Dealers couldn’t even get them then because [Zildjian had] just come out with the line.

Marty Lishon, who runs Frank’s Drum Shop in Chicago is a good friend of mine. He talked to Lenny, and when the NAMM Show was over — I was able to get [the Deep Ride]. Remember the old K. Zildjians? It’s the same sound. Not quite as funky sounding, but just a real nice tone.

SKF: What size bass drums?

DD: Twenty-four inch. I like 24″ just for the sheer volume. I have been using muffling inside the drums. When I was playing clubs I wouldn’t put anything in the bass drum at all. I’d just muffle the head itself — either with those felt strips or tape or both. If you get the head muffled down enough with just that, you don’t have to put anyting inside the drum. It really kicks.

When you take a 24″ bass drum and put something inside you don’t have a 24″ bass drum anymore. The main reason I’m still using stuff inside my bass drums now is because of the sound men. It’s just easier for them to get a sound on a heavily muffled drum. But I’d like to go and work it in to where I don’t actually have anything inside the bass drum at all, and just muffle the head itself.

I have front [bass] drum heads on but they’re cut out.

Alot of guys like [John] Bonham and…. Simon Phillips uses a front head on his bass drums and he’s got a rig, I think, with the mikes down inside. I don’t know if I’m ready to go that far yet. Then you’re really talking about going around-and-around with the sound men. Sound men, for some reason, can’t deal with overtones and ringing drums.

SKF: Is your studio set-up the same as the onstage set-up?

DD: Yeah. Last year when we were at The Record Plant doing the Ghost Riders album, the first couple of tunes I used my set on. And then [ audio engineer Ron ] Nevison wanted to go out and rent another set of drums. For what, I don’t know. You can’t tell the difference on the record. It all sounds like the same set.

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Roach: Our Classrooms Were Speakeasies, Joints, Clubs

Posted on March 22, 2016 by Scott K Fish

roach_maxArts & Entertainment Music Howard Reich
A bold concert series digs deeply into Max Roach’s art

“You have to remember that our classrooms were the speakeasies and joints and clubs, there was no formal instruction,” he told me in 1991, long after he had begun teaching at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, in the early 1970s.

“Back then, you learned by imitation, by watching and then analyzing the greats. But you also had to learn how to be different from the people you revered, or else people would say: ‘He sounds too much like Charlie Parker‘ or ‘I heard Bud Powell do that already.'”

Full Story

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Did That Song Intro Trick You? Trick It Back!

Posted on March 21, 2016 by Scott K Fish

SKF NOTE: In a recent post about Led Zeppelin’s song Black Dog, drummers on DrumForum.org commented on other songs with notable trick starts.

“I always loved how Misty Mountain Hop starts off. I still hear the main riff one way, but once the drums kick in, I realize I was hearing [the one beat] wrong. Heard that song…maybe thousands of times and it…gets me every single time,” writes one drummer.

“Hendrix’s version of Watchtower and the way it switches in the intro gets me every time. Apparently Hendrix wanted it that way and it took [drummer Mitch] Mitchell a while to catch on,” writes another DrumForum member.

The Doobie Brothers’s song, Minute by Minute, has a start that always tricks my ear.

Sometimes new songs — songs I’m hearing for the first time — trick me. Listening to the intro riff (A bass? Guitar? Drumset? Keyboard?) with brand new ears, I might start playing an accompanying beat on my car dashboard or in my mind. When the full song kicks in it’s obvious I was tricked. The downbeat isn’t where I heard it. Or my beat is in half-time. Or I was playing a Latin feel to the intro of a song that, once the trick start ends, is actually a medium tempo 4/4 rock song.

What is my normal reaction when I recognize my ears were tricked? I stop playing whatever beat I was playing. I mentally scold myself, “Aarrrgh! You were tricked! You were playing the WRONG BEAT.”

Was I really playing the wrong beat? I wasn’t hearing the song the way the musicians on the record were hearing it. But was my hearing WRONG? Sometimes — not often enough — when a song tricks me that way I keep playing my beat, my creation, anyway. And it often sounds great. Different? Of course.

I’m working on trusting my ears more often. If it turns out a song’s original feel or beat works better than what I was hearing — okay. But it cannot be good to train ourselves to automatically criticize and throw away as wrong every original idea that comes our way.

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