Jason Bonham: The Making of Jimmy Page’s ‘Outrider’ Album (1988)

Posted on February 10, 2018 by Scott K Fish

SKF NOTE: Jason Bonham was kind enough to say yes to an interview back in 1988, published in Drums & Drumming magazine. Much of our interview was never published because of the magazine’s space constraints. But I think Jason’s recollections are well worth publishing. Here, for example, are Jason’s recollections of recording what was to be Jimmy Page’s Outrider album. Prior to my opening statement here, Jason and I were talking about his recording with his bands Virginia Wolf and Bonham.

I was at home in Oxford, Maryland and Jason was home in England for this phone interview.

Scott K Fish: The adventurism in drums, especially on records, has really diminished.

Jason Bonham: Oh yeah. Nowadays you’ve just got to play the drums, and you come out sounding like everybody else on the charts. You don’t sound like anything different. Then again, the radio programmers will play it because it doesn’t stand out. It fits in with everything else. Which is a pile of shit to me.

This thing that I did with Jimmy [Page] was great. I came in and said, “Here. Try these. I’ve got a couple of great [drum] samples.” I came up to Jimmy and said, “Listen to this snare drum.” And I will not disclose where I got it from, but I borrowed it properly from somebody who borrowed it off my dad, in the background anyway.

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I’ll give you a clue. It was on the Robert Palmer album, played by Tony Thompson. It was a huge snare drum sound.

So, I said [to Jimmy Page], “Listen to this. We’ve got to use this sound for this one track.” So what we did, we got my snare drum sounding really shit hot as well. And it’s in this really live room, and we whacked this snare drum on top of it as well. It was huge. And it went really, really well.

With Jimmy,. the drum sound was different in each song, because he wanted that type of atmosphere every time we did something. Instead of, “It’s got to be perfect,” we didn’t care. It’s like, you can tell that it’s real drums, and you can tell when I slowly hit the drum lighter than the other one.

And I think that’s what a lot of the pop stuff misses today. There’s no feeling anymore.

On those blues tracks that we did you can hear it where we come down and then we go back up again. You can always tell by the power the drummer puts on the stroke. And then we go back to the light [playing] and the side [cross?] stick — and we build it up. And all of a sudden…. You can tell when you try to record the damn thing because the [volume meter] levels are going off at the right center. Then you come back down again and the level is right at the red.

To be [a recording] engineer you’ve got to be really on your toes.

The project with Jimmy Page is all finished. It started about 12 months ago. [No,] longer [ago] than that. We started at the end of October ‘86. I had gone on holiday with my girlfriend to a place. Jimmy was over there. We did a gig over there, and we played, and we were talking.

[Jimmy] said, “Listen, when I get back home I want to start recording a solo album. Would you be interested in playing the drums?”

I said, “Fantastic, yeah, I’d love to.”

So we got back home. A couple of weeks later [Jimmy] calls me up. I go down to see his manager. We worked out a deal. Then we started playing.

It was fantastic. The first week was just jamming, really. He’d play a riff and we’d play around it; work on it a little bit and see what else we could do with it.

Then we’d come out a week later. Jimmy would have listened to the tape and added a bit more to it. And then we’d start playing that. We virtually wrote all the material when we got together. It was like, he’d have an idea and we’d just play it to work it out, really.

And we were jamming Zeppelin songs. Occasionally I’d start Rock and Roll and then, “Okay. Hold it. HOLD IT! No, no. Get back to what we’re supposed to be doing.” And then we’d go back again.

SKF: So, in the beginning of this project it was just you and Jimmy Page?

JB: It was myself and Jimmy, yeah. Then he got a bass player in, now and again, and we’d try and put stuff down. Then eventually we did start going for it seriously. I think some of the best tracks were done earlier on when we just were jamming them, really. For playing-wise you couldn’t better it.

When we finally did it properly it was hard, I suppose, to compete with the original one.

But they sound amazing because it’s so free. It’s like, nobody told me what to do. No one was telling Jimmy what to do. And nobody was telling the bass player what to do. So it was like, “Okay. Let’s play. Let’s really go for it [and] show people that we’re really enjoying ourselves on the record.”

And it really was a fantastic atmosphere. When he goes really quiet you can actually hear people breathing. Most records are missing out on that nowadays.

But, it’s like a compilation, I suppose, of Jimmy’s versatility. That “A” side is like a 1988 Jimmy Page today, on his own without the influence of Paul Rodgers — or whatever. And kicking out some really good rock type material.

And I don’t think Jimmy would mind me saying, but Robert Plant sang on the track — and Robert’s actually on the album as well, which will be great for America. Because over there they’re going to go, “Madonna’s over.” Because it’s a real Zeppelin type of song. It’s like a Rock and Roll drum part, and there is Jimmy giving loads of guitar parts. Robert’s really going for it all the time.

So it’s going to be like home from home for them.

John Miles sings three tracks on the “A” side. [SKF NOTE: John Miles sings two tracks on the “A” side of the CD release.] He was with the keyboard player with Tina Turner at the moment. He’s got an amazing, really high voice. It’s a great voice. He’s from up north in Newcastle in England.

And we’ve done two great tracks from there. One is called Wasting My Time. Another is Wanna Make Love.

Then there’s an instrumental which is like a 1988 instrumental for Jimmy — which is amazing. There’s like 15 different guitars on it doing different things. I listened back to that track today. I hadn’t heard it in a long time. I just couldn’t believe it. I did this one drum fill and I went, “How the fuck did I do that?” [It was] one of those really off-time things that really worked. You try to do it again and you can’t do it.

SKF: Will any of the original track from when you and Jimmy were first together survive on the album?

JB: The instrumental track. I was just playing a drum beat, just when I got there, like a shuffle-type thing, but doing pumps with the bass drum, and straight on the bell of the cymbal. I was really going for it. And, Jimmy, all of a sudden just started playing along.

In the end he just kept the drum part and put loads of guitars on it. And the bass player came down — and it was fantastic.

SKF: You mentioned a tour.

JB: I think it will be in the summer. We start rehearsing now. As far as dates go it looks like the end of June, July, August. So that will be something to look forward to.

SKF: Who do you think will be in the touring band?

JB: I don’t know, really. Hopefully the people who worked hard on the album. Obviously, Robert [Plant] is going to be doing his own thing. Robert’s new single just came out over here [England] and it’s quite good. It’s called Heaven Knows. It’s quite a modern song, actually, but Jimmy plays on it. And I think you can tell that when you hear the solo on the album.

There are two tracks on Robert’s [Now and Zen] album that Jimmy actually plays on.

SKF: What drum kit were you using on the Jimmy Page project?

JB: Well, I should say Tama, but I was using a Ludwig. It’s funny that I haven’t recorded with a Tama kit yet. My last endorsement kit with Ludwig was a Chrome-O-Wood, and I used that on the album, but I used an old Green Sparkle bass drum.

Put it this way: Jimmy wanted me to use the old classic Ludwig kit because my dad did. It was a kit he had that he said my father gave to him. Because it was the classic old green bass drum. The Green Sparkle 26”x14.” He toured that in 1971, I think. That was one of the first kits [John Bonham] ever used from Ludwig.

Yeah, because the first kit [my father] had was a maple… no! The second kit [my father] had was a maple shell. The first kit he had was this Green Sparkle — which is quite funny. But it was a great bass drum. It sounded really good, and it was used on In Through The Out Door, because the guy who worked on this album with Jimmy was the engineer on In Through The Out Door of Led Zeppelin: Leif Mases. It was fantastic working with him because he was telling me some of the things my dad did.

There’s a great story. You must print this. It’s fantastic.

They had this huge, huge rubber plant in the Abba studios in Stockholm, and they set my dad’s drum kit up in the corner next to it in this big stone room. My dad came in, he played for 15 minutes.

The next day the plant was dead.

They tried to revive this plant for weeks while they were there, and it just died instantly. It was so loud. And [my dad] was using the famous steel drums, like stainless steel shells. Stainless steel bass drum, stainless steel shells.It was just totally awesome loudness.

And this plant, this poor thing, just next day was keeled over in the corner of the room.

I thought it was quite amusing.

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Ed Soph: Playing Drums is No Different Than Opening a Door (1985)

Posted on February 9, 2018 by Scott K Fish

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SKF NOTE: Here’s the back story on this Ed Soph interview circa 1985. And here, for the historical record, is Mr. Soph describing his drum clinics in the mid-1980s. Readers should remember this exchange took place more than 30-years ago. Soph may have evolved his thinking since, but maybe not. Either way, please take this exchange as representing one moment in time.

Scott K Fish: I’ve never been to an Ed Soph [drum] clinic. What’s it like?

Ed Soph: I come out and play a short solo. A solo, hopefully, with some content, not just a bash, bang.

Then I say, “I just tried to play a musical solo. I was actually playing on the form of a tune. How many of you could hear any repetitive figures, recurring figures, etc.?”

Invariably, some hands go up and I think, “Thank God.”

And I start out with brushes because that’s the quickest way to get people’s attention: with brushes. What’s the great cliche of the day?

SKF: Brushes are a dying art.

ES: Yeah. What a bunch of bullshit.

Next, I ask, “What are some musical elements that a drummer must use in order to make music? Think like a musician, not like a drummer.”

I’ll see blank stares for a minute. I say, “Let me give you a hint. What are some of the things that I used in my solo to catch your attention?”

A guy will go, “You used dynamics.” Someone else will say, “It had form.” Another guy will say, “You used different accent patterns.”

The thing that they never say, and it’s the last thing that any of us think about, is the use of space: what you don’t play. Space is mentioned eventually, and I say, “Okay, what’s the equivalent of space on the drumset? What, mechanically, is equivalent to space? [The answer is] strokes.”

Then I get into a whole motion thing about how the only rule, as far as I’m concerned — on the instrument — is that you sound the way you move. If you move jerkily and out-of-time, you sound jerky, and you play out-of-time. If you move with big motions you make big sounds. Small motions make small sounds.

All of a sudden, literally, you see lights go on, because you, me, and everyone else has been conditioned for years to deal with only one aspect of the instrument — and that’s the sound. And if something’s out-of-time you don’t think about the stroke, or the silence, the space that’s producing the sound. You try to rectify it from the sound standpoint.

Then I go into a whole rap about basic coordination. Not between the hands and the feet, but coordinating the whole arm. Just like you coordinate your whole leg when you walk. You’ve got three joints: ankle, knee, and hip. You’ve got: wrist, elbow, and shoulder. You don’t walk stiff legged, but when some people sit down at the [drum]set, [they] play like they were walking on wooden legs.

Playing drums is no different than opening a door or anything else.

I also burst some balloons that have cropped up because of military influence on the instrument. The idea that control means tightening up rather than relaxing.

Another opening question I ask is, “What’s a drummer’s most important asset?”

The answers I get will be “keeping time,” and “speed,” and then someone — usually an older cat, will say, “His ability to listen.” And then you see some more lights go on.

Then [I] get into a little rap on improvisation, explaining how that’s just like holding a conversation with somebody.

In a nutshell, what I try to do in a clinic is to break down some very common physical barriers which every player goes through unless they’re extremely fortunate to be a natural on the instrument: [Those very common physical barriers are] developing natural hand grips, posture behind the drumset, and set-up.

And then some very basic, but very difficult — because they require a great deal of concentration — some very basic coordination exercises dealing with quarter notes.

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Neil Peart: I Take Enormous Care on Every Word (1984)

Posted on February 8, 2018 by Scott K Fish

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POV shot from behind the kit. Photo: Neil Peart

SKF NOTE: In our 1984 phone interview, Neil Peart spoke, in part, about how Rush writes songs. This exchange is from my full transcript of that interview, much of which was never published because there wasn’t room for it.

Scott K Fish: In 1980 you spoke of the Rush songwriting process. You said, “The three of us try to establish the same feeling for what the song should be. Then you bring the technical skills in to try to interpret that properly, and achieve what we thought it would be.”

Can you [rephrase] that [in] English?

Neil Peart: Nothing could be plainer! It’s verbalization. When we’re working with a set of lyrics, we determine: What should this song be? What kind of mood do we want? If it feels like a light, slow song, should we make it a heavy, fast song?

We verbalize the possibilities. We discuss the emotional context of the songs. Is this song ironic or direct and to the point? Is it accusatory or confessional? It’s the attitude the character of the song has. The attitude of the song is talked about before any music is applied. Even the tempo and rhythmic feel will be verbalized first.

That’s where the relationship between us becomes critically important.

It’s usually a first person song, occasionally a narrative song. “Manhattan Project,” the story of the birth of the A-Bomb is a documentary, a third person narrative about a seemingly cold, historical event. We were very conscious of personalizing it, of putting in tension, aggression, and all moods that would be involved in it.

We were talking about such an enormous event, we had to think big musically. We orchestrated a string instrumental solo in the middle. That was [producer] Peter Collins’s bit of input.

Geddy [Lee] suggested the “imagine a man” device. Imagine a time when the war was going on. A place in the desert. Imagine a man walking back-and-forth. Inviting the audience to share this image instead of saying, “Here’s the picture.”

It was a great little piece of inspiration.

SKF: You said in 1980 you don’t put much importance on lyric writing. Still true?

NP: Yeah. If I remember, part of my reasoning was the amount of time I spend on it. I might spend one or two months every two years writing lyrics. And I don’t think about it all the time.

If I see a neat phrase that would make an interesting title — I’ll write it down. An image I like. A line that springs into my head while riding my bicycle. I collect all those things very informally. Page after page of scratchings.

When it’s songwriting time I can literally say, “Okay, today I’m writing lyrics.” There’s no waiting for inspiration. I’ve collected all the inspiration months before.

I lavish enormous care on every word, rewriting until I die. In average [Rush song] lyrics I guess I have a couple hundred words. So I’m very conscious of every word’s value.

Often, the line I started with doesn’t exist at the end. It becomes the foundation.

I’ve heard this applied to story writing. You apply your foundation, build up the story, and take the foundation out, because you don’t need it anymore.

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Monk’s Cure for Drummers Who Won’t Keep Good Time

Posted on February 5, 2018 by Scott K Fish
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SKF NOTE: One of my most memorable drummer interview stories: Thelonious Monk’s cure for drummer’s who can’t keep time. This is from Paul Motian‘s 1980 interview. If I can locate Paul’s telling of this story on tape I will digitize and post it.

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“One time I was playing with Monk and I think the tempo picked up a little bit. At the end of the set I went over to him and said I was sorry; that I might have rushed a little bit on that number.

“Monk said, ‘Well, if I hit you in the side of the head you won’t rush!’

“That’s great advice,” Paul Motian laughed. “I’ve never rushed after that.”

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‘A Love Supreme’ Test Pressing for $20,000?

Posted on February 2, 2018 by Scott K Fish

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SKF NOTE: It will be interesting to see if this test pressing is worth $20,0000 to someone. No mention in the report if anyone has played this test pressing to see if it is, in fact, the John Coltrane Quartet’s ‘A Love Supreme.’

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Ultra-Rare Test Pressing Of John Coltrane’s ‘A Love Supreme’ For Sale
By Paul Sexton
February 2, 2018

An ultra-rare test pressing of one of the most celebrated jazz albums of all time, John Coltrane’s 1965 masterwork A Love Supreme, is now for sale on eBay. Collectors may need a sharp intake of breath when they discover that the “buy it now” price is listed, at this writing, at $19,999.99.

Academy Records added that it had bought the test pressing from “a guy whose thing is hunting through thrift stores, garage sales. We couldn’t find another copy to know how much to sell it for.”

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